Off The Hook

Venezuela, Bail Bonds, And Bourbon

• Chad and Rob • Episode 1031

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The world feels chaotic until you anchor it to what actually works. We start with a raw look at Venezuela—an oil-rich nation weighed down by corruption and human rights abuses—and connect it to the fentanyl surge, narco-terror networks, and why deterrence at sea and at the border has become a front-line debate. It’s not just geopolitics for headlines; it’s the everyday cost to American communities and the families grieving real losses.

Then we bring it home. Nashville becomes our shorthand for a bigger truth: culture clashes can coexist with economic vitality when cities manage tourism with intention. Budget flights and airport protests spark questions about access, affordability, and who gets to move freely. And in Georgia politics, identity labels collide with a simple demand for competence—earn votes by delivering results, not by leading with a bio.

Our guest, Hunter from Momentum Distillery, pulls back the curtain on craft spirits. From sweet corn bourbon and holographic labels to the nitty-gritty of North Carolina’s ABC system, he explains how a missing definition for “production” tied up common sense. The numbers tell their own story: a 30 percent excise tax on distillers, an effective 56 percent at retail, and a market shaken by the rise of THC seltzers. Hunter lays out a focused fix—legalize in-state shipping with age verification and allow distilleries to sell directly to bars and restaurants when local boards refuse special orders. The payoff is clear: more jobs, more tax revenue, and better consumer choice without cutting the excise rate.

We round out with education and workforce. Community colleges and trade programs are where future-proof careers live, and if taxes and lottery money are as large as promised, classrooms should show it. That’s the challenge to our leaders: manage public money like it matters, because it does. We also give credit where it’s due—signing Irene’s Law was a step toward bipartisan problem-solving—and extend an open invite to keep talking bail reform with data and outcomes front and center.

If this mix of straight talk, policy detail, and real-world solutions hits home, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review. Your voice helps bring better conversations—and better policy—into the light.

SPEAKER_10:

When people are released from jail, they have the responsibility to appear in court. But some of these people choose to go on the run.

SPEAKER_03:

They go back home to mommy.

SPEAKER_10:

And that is when these guys come into the picture. So sit back and listen to the off the hook podcast. Tech woman's Rob.

SPEAKER_03:

Very fine people on both sides. Both sides, both.

SPEAKER_10:

These are real stories, but the names have been changed.

SPEAKER_03:

This is Rob.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm Chad. What's up?

SPEAKER_03:

And Chad, won't you introduce who we have next to us, please?

SPEAKER_02:

Hello, everybody. Hunter joining us today.

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome, welcome.

SPEAKER_11:

The names have not been changed today. These stories are real.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. I had to get to I had to get to this part. Okay. So cool.

SPEAKER_11:

All right, Hunter, how you been, buddy? I've been great, man. We are back in business. Things are rocking and rolling for us at momentum.

SPEAKER_03:

Awesome. Yeah, we'll definitely go get into that a little bit later. Um man, it's it's been uh it's been a wild, wild, wild, wild uh week. Um and I keep I I I'm telling, all right, so every week, you know, we've been kind of going through some of the you know the big big news that's going on right now, right? And one of them is Venezuela. I've been keeping up with it because it's it's interesting to me. Uh I want to see how things are gonna turn out down there. And what's it what's the you know the motivation for us going down there? Uh other than the you know, the drug cartels, and we know they're working out of South America. We've known that for years, and so Mexico, the whole nine.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was watching this morning and I caught some uh news about uh Steve Hedgebeth talking about um doing the double tap on the on the uh Oh Pete Pete Hicks Pete Hedgebeth. Yeah, and uh doing the double tap on the boat. Now, then I listened to Steven Crowder. It's the same thing I thought. It's like it's the humane thing to do. They're out there in the middle of the ocean floating on basically before a boat can get to you, a little bit of wood, you know, either you're gonna drown or sharks are gonna get you a boat. There's a whole chain of command that goes into before they do a strike. So if if the Libby's want to get mad, they're gonna have to go over the whole chain of command that led up to that strike. It's not just Pete going, hit them again, boys. I mean, even though I wish it kind of was. Well, you know, it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_03:

The liberals are going crazy about it and saying, Oh, it's a war crime, it's war crime. Uh it's it's just another something else for them to bitch and complain about. I all I see is liberals as bitching and complaining, but no nothing to solve any of the issues.

SPEAKER_11:

Narco-terrorism is one of the biggest problems that we face right now because we've been trying to destroy our country from the inside out. I mean, the drugs that are coming into our country, fentanyl that's being produced in China to weaponize against American citizens, that's a huge deal. And nobody was doing anything about it, and now we have somebody that's doing everything about it. Oh, dude, I'm I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm I'm can't wait to see.

SPEAKER_02:

Everybody sitting at this table and listening to this podcast knows somebody that died because of a drug problem. Something that happened. Yep. Absolutely. So you should be thrilled that somebody's doing something about it.

SPEAKER_11:

I don't, I just don't, I just don't get it. Like Well, and let me tell you, Venezuela is a very rich country. Venezuela has the best stuff in the dirt that you can find anywhere on this planet. They've got gold, they've got silver, they've got cobalt, which is all of our phone screens, they've got natural gas, they've got oil. They have everything, and that's why they have corruption. Same thing with uh Ukraine. Ukraine is the breadbasket of the world. They have tons of corruption. We have to do something about these countries because they don't have that one thing that we've come to appreciate human rights, right? You cannot have a country without human rights.

SPEAKER_03:

And the people just don't understand it down there. They're like, uh, we've just been, you know, we get told what to do, and and they they they feed us crumbs, communism, pretty much.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And that that's why people are fleeing, but now you but people, the liber liberal white women here, especially in uh in America, they want it.

SPEAKER_11:

Ask the Cubans in Florida who they voted for. Exactly. They definitely didn't vote for communism, they don't want to go back. That's how it's beautiful. So I have two liquors that I buy a neutral from out of Venezuela, and I name it after Venezuela beaches. Uh La Punta de Caracas, the point of Caracas, is the most surf beach in Venezuela. And then Playa Pentaleta, the Pantyhose beach, is really the most dangerous beach, but it's the best surf break.

SPEAKER_03:

Why is it the most dangerous beach?

SPEAKER_11:

It's just Playa Pentaleta, the pantyhose beach. There's hookers, there's drugs, there's everything you can. Yeah, you ain't getting to the beach. You got to fight to get to the water. Come here, bota. But it is a beautiful country. And you know, it's funny, maybe Donald Trump looks at the country kind of the way he looks at the Gaza Strip. This is some prime real estate. This is beach front water. Let's do something amazing here. The country could benefit from it. Can you imagine all those people having something to do, going to work, working at a resort? Like the whole country could turn into an economic success instead of a siphon for dictators to get rich. I mean, who is the wealthiest person in Venezuela? It's Hugo Chavez's daughter.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I mean, it's all it it's all corrupt. All corrupt. Then you got Columbia next door to him. You know, what do you what do you got like there's a lot there too? I mean, South America, you know, uh there's not uh everything in South America is very poor looking, but and slavery lasted for another hundred years in South America.

SPEAKER_11:

We could kick it out in 18 England, 1809, America in the 1865 during the war. It went until like the 30s, slavery in South America.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh no, you're speaking facts now. You might piss off a liberal.

SPEAKER_11:

But that's you know, the the truth of the matter is they're still behind almost post-Reconstruction, kind of like America was. So it's instable, it's it's the system is broken, they don't have real leadership, they only have dictators, and those dictators are after one thing and one thing only, and that's wealth and power. I guess that's two things, but it is all within the same thing.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm interested to see what's gonna happen because everything I'm seeing is like Venezuela citizens are arming up and getting ready for guerrilla warfare. Do you not know that like we know what we're doing? They have no idea. They're gonna take down their own government for us. Exactly. So I can't wait. We'll we'll see. I I like I I got my eye on it, and I'm gonna be in it. It's funny, I'm gonna be in a Caribbean on December 30th. And I like evidently there's a uh aircraft carrier parked in St. Thomas.

SPEAKER_11:

Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw that. All the soldiers getting off the boat, getting some little rest and relaxation.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I kinda I like I kind of hope I see one. Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be awesome. Um anyway, we'll keep an eye on that. So the next thing is how about Tennessee governor winning? Mr. Matt Van Epps. Um decorative veteran.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes, it was quite, it was close. It was way too close. Yep. And that's because of how much money was dumped into a candidate that doesn't even like the district that she was running in. So let me let me let me explain something to you.

SPEAKER_03:

This is the Nashville hater. Yeah, it is a Nashville. And her name is uh it's right here. It's uh hell, I can't even pronounce the damn name. Anyway, uh let's let's call it retard. You know, Trump got in trouble for that. Let's call it retard. Anyway, so this re-read, uh, she says she hates country music. All right, she hates Broadway. Let me tell you, I I like I've been to Broadway a dozen times. Love the place. Uh it can get a little uh, you know, Broadway can get a little, you know, stereotypical. Yeah, stereotypical. So, you know, you kind of go off of Broadway. There's like other things in Tennessee, but that's a strong, strong economic uh positive for next time. You ain't lying. You like like literally, all right. She said she hated the the bicycle. You know, the you know, I always joked about it as I said, you know what the worst sound in Wilmington is? It's when that bicycle with the drunk people come drive driving by. The party bus. Yeah, I can't stand a thing. It's horrible. They used to meet out here, remember?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they would meet out there, and they get all drunk and like it's like one o'clock.

SPEAKER_11:

Like for how much hell ABC just put me through, and they let people ride around with open containers on that stupid bike.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

It blows my mind.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I don't get the I don't get the whole process of getting drunk and sober at the same time.

SPEAKER_02:

Get drunk and exercise? Yeah, it's kind of weird. I didn't sign up for this.

SPEAKER_11:

Well, and and and the fabric of the city, like I get it, you know, having all the um bachelorette parties and the bachelor parties and stuff, it is hard. But you have to understand what is your economic success and cater to it and control it. So she could come out and say, Hey, you know what? I've got a really good plan. The bachelorettes, they're getting a little out of hand. This is what we need to do. We need to hire 50 more police officers. We need to hire some people that that that do a different service in the city. That's not what she said. She said, I hate it. I hate those people. I hate country music. I hate country music people. Do you know that's you might as well say, like, I just hate white men. You might as well just say that.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, that's a like this, you know, that's like the cap country capital of the world, right?

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. And and the music that comes out of there is absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_03:

The songwriters are just amazing. Uh just like not just country music.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You get a lot of rock, a lot of metal. It comes out of Nashville. There's a lot there.

SPEAKER_11:

A lot of the touring musicians. Um, when I was opening up the distillery, um I think it was Aria, Speedwagon, or Chicago. It's one of those two. I mixed those two bands up. But the guy that played bass with them was a tour musician, and he played with like Bonnie Raitt and all kinds of other people. That's who I want to meet, man. Those are guys that that they can tell you stories for days because they played with so many amazing people, but he lives in Nashville because that's the hub of where he distributes from. Yeah. So he can hop on a plane and get anywhere, but you know, it's a a kinship of of souls that that have the same kind of musical path.

SPEAKER_03:

Look, man, I keep telling, I keep telling Chad that he's got him and Bethany got to go out there with just no kids one weekend and go experience it. And uh, I was out there what a month ago, maybe something like that. Yeah, I was about there a month ago, and uh I was sending him pictures, you know, Broadway and you know, certain little things there. But we ate at uh the the Detroit Cowboy Kid Rocks New restaurant. Yeah, that was uh amazing, bro. Um but I told him he's gotta go out there and try it, man. I'm telling you, it's gonna be it'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'll be in the Bahamas tomorrow. So yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh god, that's right. Uh, you are gonna be gone.

SPEAKER_02:

I love the sands of the Caribbean. So enjoy your time here.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh god, have fun down there. Uh I kind of like kind of envy, envy that. I really want to go. Can I put me in your suitcase, bro? Let's go.

SPEAKER_11:

Nowadays, with the cost of travel, you must have to stick somebody in your suitcase.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I know, right? So that reminds me, speaking of travel, the uh re's that were at the airport uh boycotting uh Valo Airlines. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Apparently, I I was wondering about that too. Apparently, they were aiding uh ICE as far as um flights for illegal immigrants.

SPEAKER_11:

They're aiding Americans that are trying to get somewhere for an affordable price. That's all the Velos Airline is doing.

SPEAKER_03:

They did, they do a pretty damn good job. I flew in the first time not too long ago.

SPEAKER_02:

I know a lot Yeah, a lot of people are you know using this uh Avalo because they're they're flying to New York, Florida.

SPEAKER_11:

Look, New Haven, Connecticut, this couple that comes in, they're from New York City, and they're like, listen, flying and out of New Haven, Connecticut, it's way cheaper. It's right there where Yale is, it's beautiful, it's on the water. You can take the train into the city. I was like, wow,$79,$89 like to go to New York City? That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's direct, it's direct too. Yeah, we like that's what we fly to Nashville. That's what we take a velo tonight because it's direct flights. Yeah. And it's and it's cheap. And then now they got Dominican Republic, they got Orlando, they got Miami. I mean, it's like hell yeah, I take it.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. Why am I gonna find uh American or Delta? Delta's expensive. Yeah, like I don't need comfort, it's already uncomfortable to fly. Just get me there.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. All right, so oh, we've got to talk about the uh the governor of Georgia.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah, I can get I get TikTok keeps popping up. This this person keeps going on there and giving little speech TikTok speeches about running for governor of Georgia. And uh what is this C here? Sarah McBride? Is that her?

SPEAKER_11:

But do we call her Sarah or do we call her?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the first things out of his her mouth are uh hi, I'm so-and-so running for governor, and uh I am uh openly trans.

SPEAKER_11:

Like, does trans automatically give somebody an edge up? Like, is there an intelligence that you give it?

SPEAKER_02:

Why is that the first thing out of your mouth? I mean, we figured it out with the Adams apple, you talking, so we got it. But we bulge you know where I wasn't looking there. I was just you can see this thing going up and down right here. Swinging harder than Brigitte over there in France with uh old Mac Cron.

SPEAKER_03:

Or swinging harder than Michelle Obama.

SPEAKER_11:

Big Mike. Hey, hey. Well, you know, there's a place in our society for everybody, but don't make that everything about you. Yeah. Like get out there and do something great. Don't don't get elected because you're trans. Get elected because you can do something for the people of Georgia.

SPEAKER_02:

So once you get in and like the trans thing wears off, you know, you have to do real work. It's not just about that.

SPEAKER_11:

Being a governor is not easy. I used to wait on Douglas Wilder, who was the first African-American governor elected in the capital of the Confederacy, but in the United States, in Virginia. And he went into the governor's office, him and his wife had split. He was a bachelor governor, and he worked his tail off. And he said he probably couldn't have done it with the commitment of being married. It's a it's an intense job. And somebody that's mentally disabled that that thinks that they're another sex. I don't think that you can focus enough to do the job of running the state. You're the executive of the state, it's an important job.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

And I think Brian Kemp has done a pretty good job, even though he pissed off Trump and like he still managed to do a good job in that state. Didn't he have a lot of people? Call him how we see him, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Didn't he have a commercial where he blew something up? I thought that was amazing. I was like, oh, cool.

SPEAKER_11:

They still let those other two clowns get elected. The rich one, uh Warnock, I think is his name. And uh yeah, and then the other one that was in uh the black guy that was in trouble for like basically fraud, you know, and then just oh we'll just sweep it under the rug. It's no big deal. It's just a little fraud. It's another Democrat with a little bit of fraud.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. Well, since it's the holidays there, Hunter and Mr. Chad, we got a liberal meltdown of the week. Okay, and I found this, it it like evidently the algorithm is like popping up on my YouTube.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

And I saw that's like, oh, perfect timing because it is. It's great. So let's go ahead and start this. The liberal meltdown of the week.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, holiday edition.

SPEAKER_09:

I've seen some videos on here of Trump supporters openly mocking our very real grief.

SPEAKER_01:

I am sterile today. Mental help.

SPEAKER_03:

Mental health.

SPEAKER_01:

I thought it couldn't get too much more reasonably still.

SPEAKER_02:

Still got three years pace yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

I cannot be chill. I cannot be chill like it's not chill, like it's not chill, like it's not something like I can just I feel like I can be okay with.

SPEAKER_08:

And um there's only so much constant trauma and suffering. The mind can take.

SPEAKER_03:

White women, see? You gotta do that. Gotta love the dance, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_11:

See him getting in the buck. How about that trigger fish?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh how dare we speak Merry Christmas! How dare we!

SPEAKER_06:

I think for 24 hours. I'm not joking, I'm saying I'm so glad that we live in the post. This trust for me I can even say it. But if you voted for Donald Trump, then you don't deserve any part of my life.

SPEAKER_01:

I always knew that America hated women. I knew America hated women that we weren't seeing we weren't hard, we weren't helping. I knew American women hated women. America.

SPEAKER_03:

Have you noticed all these women are ugly as shit?

SPEAKER_11:

Everybody that's complaining is alone, and everybody that's having fun is together with somebody else.

SPEAKER_07:

Donald Trump is not my president. He is not my president, he will never be my president. Never that will never come out of my mouth. Can I say purpose, please? Donald Trump, let me be very clear. Donald Trump is more than me.

SPEAKER_03:

I leave that in my front yard.

SPEAKER_05:

This was our chance to stay, the state, and and people who look like me. Primarily, the one that's up. Okay.

SPEAKER_11:

I don't know about you guys, but I voted for common sense in the last election.

SPEAKER_02:

I did too.

SPEAKER_11:

And I think we're getting it.

SPEAKER_07:

We're getting really good. And this one is for the Trump support. Oh god. You are going to help with this.

SPEAKER_03:

We're going to hell, everybody. We're going to hell.

SPEAKER_11:

I'm just trying to make sure that I still got my VIP pass.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly, right? I mean, what the hell, people? Alright. So yeah, I had to um I had to take that my damn planel off. He'll get hot in that hair.

SPEAKER_11:

Well, I I think the disconnect here is that like I don't I don't I can't I that's what's I can't make sense of it. I don't understand why people hate somebody like that. I've never hated, like, I didn't hate Obama, I didn't hate Biden. I said that they were horrible presidents and we would be a lot better with somebody else, but I didn't hate them. The hate that people have for Donald Trump is unreal. When they see that red hat and they lose their ever-living shit, it's like, what in's wrong with you that you're triggered by a red hat?

SPEAKER_03:

So before you go any further, we have to say a little something for our sponsor, which is the North Carolina Bell Agent Association.

SPEAKER_02:

Here you go. NCBAA serving North Carolina since 1997, I believe. 92. 92, excuse me. My bad, guys. Give you five more years.

SPEAKER_11:

Cash bail is so important. And we see it. Our the Irena's law. Like these people wouldn't be out offending if we had cash bail. Because these two guys, you're not gonna miss your date. You're gonna be there. You're gonna be there if they have to drag you in, kicking and screaming.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. That's uh that's our end of the bargain, as they say. We have to keep it up. And uh we promise that happened. Not taxpayer funded our jobs.

SPEAKER_11:

This podcast doesn't just stay here in Wilmington, it goes all over the world. So make sure that you talk to your representatives because that's how things get done. You have to communicate with your elected officials. And guess what? If they're not gonna work with you, vote them out, primary them, run against them. That's what has to be done. We need people that stand up for common sense legislation.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, absolutely. I I'm I'm with you 100%, but uh these Trump haters, man, they they don't care. They don't care if it destroys a city. As long as Trump's not in, they they they're happy.

SPEAKER_11:

There was people talking about downtown Wilmington spreading lies that ICE was snatching people up out in front of Hotel Ballast. And I see it on my news feeds, and it's really frustrating. Guess what it came down to? There was not enough chargers and challengers, and Wilmington Police Department had to buy some black SUVs because that's what they had available to buy. So it wasn't ICE, it was just a new fleet of SUVs for Wilmington Police Department.

SPEAKER_03:

That's all it was. There wasn't even a call.

SPEAKER_11:

They were triggered by a red hat or a black SUV that was unmarked, and that's what's crazy.

SPEAKER_03:

Jesus. Come on. All right, so Hunter. As everybody can see at home, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see right here in front of me, uh, there's a uh a fifth of bourbon in front of me. Made by Mr. Hunter Matt Momentum Distillery. Who's doing holographic labels on liquor bobs? Come on now.

SPEAKER_02:

My favorite is the vodka that's in the shape of North Carolina. That was brilliant.

SPEAKER_11:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's brilliant. I work with amazing people. My buddy Aaron Flannery gifted me this idea. So when you go to concerts, especially concerts in Roanoke Island Festival Park, um where they ply their trade, the posters at the merch table with the holograms, they go out first. Those are the ones that people want first. And I figured all these people have bourbon collections now. Why not give them a cool thing to add to their collection? So we did a holographic label, and I don't know anybody else that's doing holographic labels. I'm sure somebody's done it in the past, but we like to do fun stuff at momentum, and that's the result of the fun stuff that we do.

SPEAKER_03:

Very cool. And I like bourbon, by the way. That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_11:

It's good. I use sweet corn instead of regular field corn. It just makes it a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03:

Is it at North Carolina sweet corn?

SPEAKER_11:

It's not because our sweet corn is kind of a translucent, it's not as rich in uh protein. Uh, I get Indiana sweet corn, and it's only harvested in I think August and September. And um, together with the Vienna malted barley that I use, a beer malted barley, it holds the aging almost two to one. So a little bit darker color, a little bit more robust flavor in a shorter period of time. Very cool as compared to regular field corn and regular American malted barley.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_11:

Sweet corn for the wind, baby.

SPEAKER_03:

Speaking Chinese to me, but hey, it sounds good. I'm sure it's gonna taste good. So if you are in the North Carolina, is it North Carolina or is it uh is it United?

SPEAKER_11:

We can now ship to 44 states. The holographic isn't available online yet. We'll probably do a pre-sale in January to be ready for Valentine's Day for the people outside of North Carolina that want it. Um, this is something that we only sell at the Front Street distillery.

SPEAKER_03:

Ooh. And that's actually right down the road here.

SPEAKER_11:

That's just a half block away.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. All right. So tell us a little bit about what you got going on.

SPEAKER_11:

So selling on Front Street has been a bit of contention with the state of North Carolina. Um, I don't think it should have been. And breweries across North Carolina, like Highwire here, Highwire has a brewery, I think, in Asheville, and they have a tap room here. So there's no brewing equipment there. It's over there in the uh cargo, the soda pop district. And distilleries can't do that. And a lot of the reason why they can't do that is because the state of North Carolina does not want to give up the optics of you either go to a state-owned liquor store or you go to the distillery where it's made. So we own the building and we just wanted to make our business make sense. I'm not trying to cheat anybody, I'm not trying to not pay taxes, I'm not trying to do anything super special. I just wanted to open my business in the property that we already owned. And we got a lot of resistance. And in that resistance, we found a loophole, if you will. It's not really a loophole, it's something that could have always been done. But ABC and every general code in North Carolina has a list of definitions. So when you read the code, you go back and you read the definition of a word. They define the word premise, they define the word sale. It's important because you can't sell somebody a bottle of liquor and say, I'm selling it to you online from Compton Street, but you can come over here and pick it up on Front Street. So they define that word in the general code. The one word that they don't define was the word that I needed, and that was production. So this whole it wasn't a fight, it was a tiff, and I was very strong in what I wanted, and they were very strong in denying me. Um so it was contentious, but we prevailed because it was common sense. It was common sense for us to be able to finish the product at that location and sell it to our customers. So what ended up happening out of all of this was now North Carolina distilleries have a clear path to open a second, a third, and a fourth location. I think that is important for economic success because we give 30% excise tax. It's called a send tax. We give it to the state for nothing, for doing nothing, just because I turned liquor from water.

SPEAKER_02:

So that's a chunk.

SPEAKER_11:

We oh I didn't want to say water to wine because I don't want to. No, you're not JC. Yeah, yeah. And you know, once we do that, we take that responsibility and we pay it. And that's a lot of money. 30% of all my sales goes to the state of North Carolina. That is a chunk. And don't you want me to give you more of that money? So I think we should have a pathway you know, to do the right thing. And that's what I fought for.

SPEAKER_03:

And so you have written um legislation.

SPEAKER_11:

I did. I ran for office back in 2018. And when I ran, I ran that long. I know.

SPEAKER_03:

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_11:

I ran for the brevity of running. I didn't run because I wanted to make legislation. I have furthered myself since then, and I don't think I want to run again. But I do want to help introduce legislation that makes common sense. So I am sending my representatives um the people who do a great job. Uh Charlie Miller in District 19 is my House representative, and uh Senator Michael Lee is my representative in the District 7 for NC Senate. And I did the work. All right, fellas, I'm gonna email you legislation, I'm gonna email you the bill, and I hope you seriously consider it. I hope you take it to committee, and I hope you guys can get this bill passed because we don't need any more ominous ABC bills that shove a bunch of pork in there so people get their wish list of crap. That's what's wrong with our state. We need common sense legislation, we need standalone bills, and we need to get the General Assembly back to the business of the people. Um Michael Lee is doing a great job. He just introduced a standalone bill for community colleges. Community colleges are the backbone of our education system here in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_03:

And and it's uh for trade, trade schools. I mean, because I mean because that's I'm telling you, trade schools is where it's going to be at the next millionaires are gonna be plumbers and electricians, okay?

SPEAKER_11:

That's who's the next millionaires because nobody knows how to do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And AI will not replace those.

SPEAKER_03:

Nope. Nope. You can't do that in anything hands-on, you know, they can't do that. So I I I'm I'm a big advocate for you know, community college and and local community, and also keep some money local here. Help it helps your community. Why not? Yeah, these big universities, like I saw on TikTok, this there's this guy I watch, he helps they produce the people that were just in that video melting down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were and and they were he he's helping them with financial stuff. Right. And he's asking him, he goes, what kind of degree you get? And he goes, Oh, I've got one in Financular Arts. Shakespeare. He goes, All right. He goes, what's Shakespeare gonna do for you?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12:

You're gonna write a sonnet? Teach other people about it? That's about it.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I mean, that's not gonna make any money. So these these these universities are just robbing people.

SPEAKER_11:

They are. I I mean, when I I went to VCU and I went to community college. Um, I went to J. Sgt. Reynolds Community College in Richmond, Virginia. Uh, I got my associate's degree because of the articulation agreement where all of your classes come over, the college doesn't get to nitpick what classes they want to take. It's a great way forward. I got a great education. Uh, I graduated from VCU uh with a degree in history and government from the Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affair. Um, I didn't get shorted in my education. In fact, I got a better education because those first two years of those core classes, my class sizes were like 30 people, 35 people. And the teacher wanted to see us. They were glad that we we're there. You know, when I got into VCU, I I didn't have to take as many of those big 400 people classes where a TA is teaching the class. So this bill that Michael just introduced is is important. Our community colleges are really important.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So um how how how how well do you feel that your legislation is going to get passed?

SPEAKER_11:

I think I wrote a strong bill. So this bill tackles two important things. Okay. It tackles being able to ship North Carolina distilleries to North Carolina residents with age verifications. They're already doing it. People are already part of bourbon clubs. There's stuff coming into the state. Now, the state looks at that as tax evasion. Um, Al Capone famously with alcohol went to jail for tax evasion. So that's kind of their hook and how they explain it. But number one, shipping to North Carolina residents, not outside of the state. We're paying 30% excise tax. Um and number two, we should be able to sell to LBD accounts. Some of those small county ABC boards, maybe they don't want to take a risk on a$62 bourbon that somebody just wants one of, and then they've got five bottles sitting. So if the restaurant or bar wants it, we should be able to service them because we are controlled. Like there's not a drop of alcohol that doesn't get accounted for. And I have to pay the tax on alcohol that evaporates out of the tank. I pay that tax. So when you fill a barrel of bourbon, you lose about 21 proof gallons, which is like 150 bottles to the wood. Damn. I got to pay the tax on that. So we're paying the taxes, and I'm not asking for them to come down on the 30% excise tax. And that's a really sticking point that a lot of people don't know. When you go to an ABC store, you're being taxed 56% to buy a bottle of liquor. That 56% is broken down into 29% excise tax, 20% bailment fee, and 7% sales tax. So you're paying a lot of tax money to North Carolina to consume alcohol. What does ABC do for that money? If I call ABC today, they're not going to give me any kind of literature or anything that's going to help me not sell to a minor, not sell to an intoxicated person. That's not what they're there for. They'll say, call alcohol law enforcement. Alcohol law enforcement will say, call ABC. They're not there to protect people in North Carolina. They're only there to collect tax revenue. So if you're just there to collect tax revenue, then let me give you the money.

SPEAKER_03:

And you know, so let me let me get this straight here. So the state's taxing you 30% on the liquor you make, and then once you sell it to ABC to ABC, they're taxing another 57%?

SPEAKER_11:

No, they're taxing another 20%.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_11:

And then you they get sales tax. So the numbers add up to 56%. Because when I get a check from ABC, I get a check for 51% is what I get. They take 49% and they get sales tax. So that seven percent sales tax is what puts it up to 56%.

SPEAKER_03:

So how much money a year do you think North Carolina makes in alcohol sales?

SPEAKER_11:

Exactly. And I want everybody out there to pay attention to something really important. Mitch McConnell just killed the farm bill because of big liquor. Big liquor runs America. Big liquor is what Mitch McConnell was supporting. Big liquor's down 38% because of THC seltzers.

SPEAKER_02:

I heard about that.

SPEAKER_11:

North Carolina's down 25% in ABC sales. They are afraid and they are desperate and they're doing anything they can. And when somebody like me comes along and makes noise and introduces legislation, they get pissed. It's in the national news. It's no secret. Mitch McConnell just upended the whole pot industry, and it's all over THC seltzers. 40% they robbed out of the market in a year. That happened quick.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Because I'm sorry, but THC drinks, they don't like they don't make you go home and slap people around. They don't make you get crazy and drive. Let's go home and eat some leftover turkey from Thanksgiving and go sleep. So I gotta, so I'm gonna have to compare it just a little bit to bail bonding. And Chad, you know where I'm coming from with this. When I say, you know, the state's making all this money off of it, right? The exactly same way the state was making money off of bondsmen when forfeitures go bad. So all this money, and it was, and our money, like, well, that gets paid to the state, all that goes to the school system.

SPEAKER_11:

So Chad was telling me about a guy in South Carolina that he was bringing back for charges here. The guy died. South Carolina wouldn't give him the death certificate so he could go get the damn money back. North Carolina was farting around with them because they wanted to keep that money. When you skip out on your bail, your bail agent has to pay the full bond back. And that goes to North Carolina.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, goes to the school system.

SPEAKER_11:

That's why this system works. That's why cash bail works because the police can't go get them like these guys can.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_11:

And we need those fugitives off the street. Otherwise, we get to the point where Donald Trump has to get elected and has to go start snatching people.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I mean, well, he's snatching people because they're they entered the country illegally.

SPEAKER_11:

Well, we talked about Venezuela earlier and we talked about the corruption of money. Now let's look at big liquor and let's look at how the state runs with this money. Dale Falwell, when he was treasurer, on a side comment, he was like, it's almost like it's the uh backup to the retirement fund for the state. It's that much money. A lot of 50%. So this is$62. The state gets$30 of it for nothing. For doing nothing. They just get$30 every time I sell one.

SPEAKER_03:

Where's that money go to?

SPEAKER_11:

Well, they say it goes to education, but for some reason the school keeps telling me that I gotta give like pencils and paper and bring supplies.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, here's what I don't that's the same thing I don't understand. The bond money, liquor money, all this stuff goes to lottery money, the lottery money. Of course, 50 over 50% of it goes to administration based for what I'm adult road.

SPEAKER_11:

Of course it does. Somebody's got to run the company, right?

SPEAKER_03:

30% goes to the schools. All this money goes to school. Why in the hell are we number one in schools?

SPEAKER_11:

Right. Why are we sweating over this bridge that's not gonna get built for another 25 years? We have the money in the state. You're just managing it wrong. And that's why you have to get out and vote. Vote for people that will manage our money correctly. I don't want to give my money to USAID and give it all over the world to unstabilize governments. I want to give it to our kids right here in North Carolina. I want 30% of something bad. There's nothing good about liquor. There's really nothing great about it. It's not great for humans. It's just it's something that we do and we enjoy. So we I will pay you the 30% syntax to make it and sell it to give our kids the best opportunity that we can give them here in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_03:

I I why can't we invest in our children? That that's that, and this is you know, this is a really good point. We can go to Michael Lee and and all that, you know, even our friend uh Dane Scalise is going to be.

SPEAKER_11:

They support small businesses. Michael has always supported small businesses. Charlie has Dane Scalise is going to be great in North Carolina House because he is a very, very strong advocate for small business.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. Man, I tell you what, I'm excited to kind of see what the horizon. I see some stuff going on in the horizon. And if we can get some people to fight a little bit more for our children, man, I I would hey, do you think Governor Stein will do that?

SPEAKER_11:

I think he will. So I did meet Governor Stein, even though he says that I didn't meet him. Um picture you do that exists. That's all I guess AI is that good, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It tricked all the people that were standing there, too. But I got a lot of hope. He is not Roy Cooper. That I can tell you. He he I think he is going to be a good governor. I think he's going to be the governor for eight years, and I think he's got a good opportunity to he started off on the right foot. He signed that law, Irene's law.

SPEAKER_02:

Governor Cooper would not have signed that law. I think I think things happened. The shooting, uh, well, the stabbing of the girl in Charlotte, Irina's Law, had to happen after that here in Southport with the shooting. Yeah. And I think that the timing of everything and the bill was introduced, he would have looked really dumb if he didn't sign it.

SPEAKER_11:

But he did sign it. And thank you, Governor Stein, for signing that bill because it showed that you're willing to work with your counterparts, and that's what we need right now. We need somebody that will work. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

I honestly was surprised.

SPEAKER_11:

Take your stuff. I get it. You probably have some pet peeves that you want to get across.

SPEAKER_03:

But here's the thing.

SPEAKER_11:

But make North Carolina great while you do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Here's it. Governor Stein, when he was attorney general, was pushing his bail reform.

SPEAKER_11:

Yes, he was. Yes, he was. And it was wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

He was wrong for it. And I'm glad that we have a good district attorney here now and Jason Smith to make sure that that kind of shenanigans don't happen. I am so glad that Ben David and his brother are done prosecuting people here in our region.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, me too. I I you know I don't want we won't go into it much.

SPEAKER_11:

But Apple is still on the tree. Those guys are so liberal that they're clouded in their judgment.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Well, that's the way a lot a lot of the uh the you know politicians are. They they they forget where they come from.

SPEAKER_11:

Yeah. Well, we're here to remind you. Like, who else writes draft legislation? I mean, I don't know how to write legislation, so I use Chat GPT. I use the tools that we have available to us. Right? And and I'm gonna send it to them. And and I hope they really consider it. I hope that they they take this bill and I hope they see that this I I can't I can't be at Front Street and be distilling over on Compton Street and be out selling. I have to hire people. So this bill, just with my own business, is gonna hire probably three employees. There's 125 distilleries across the state. If all of us hire two or three more people, the economic impact, and we're producing more 30% excise tax because those small ABC boards, they just won't work with us. They just won't do it. If they go in and ask, they'll say, Oh, we don't do special orders. And they're supposed to. That's what the system was set up to do. But things have gotten loose. A lot of ABC stores no longer have a North Carolina section anymore. And you know, things have just run amok.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, well, I'm glad you've done what you've done with Momentum Distillery. Guys, if you ever in Wilmington, uh come by, check them out. Um, if you're ever ABC store here in North Carolina, uh, go by, get some. Um the vodka's not bad. I'm not a vodka guy, but it's not it's not bad.

SPEAKER_11:

I uh request it. You can request at your local ABC store, and if they tell you no, email me because together we're gonna email ABC and we're gonna get it straight for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, right on. What's your website?

SPEAKER_11:

ncvodka.com. Nice.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh man, listen, that's good.

SPEAKER_11:

Just look for the gorgeous North Carolina shade bottle.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_11:

Governor Stein likes his. Yes, Mark Robinson liked his too. Mark's was personalized. Mark's was laser brave. That was.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's awesome. Man, Hunter, thank you for coming on, man. That's been awesome. You guys are the best.

SPEAKER_11:

I love coming on to see you, brother.

SPEAKER_03:

Man, it was a good idea. I was like, man, we ain't had a Hunter on in a while. We need to get him on here.

SPEAKER_11:

Let's bring a little bit of controversy on the show.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, baby. Yeah.

unknown:

I figure.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you think Governor Stein would ever come on our show? I don't know. Probably not.

SPEAKER_11:

Well, I think it's a good invitation. Governor Stein, why don't you come down here and talk about bail reform and we'll teach you why bail reform is a bad idea. Cash bail is where we need to be.

SPEAKER_03:

You know what? That would be a very interesting podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

It would be nice to get a perspective from his point of view. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11:

I think he'll surprise a lot of people. I I I think he's he's got it in him. I think he's he's got him. He's surprising me so far, honestly.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'm I I was hesitant. I was like, oh, now we're going to have to deal with another, you know, liberal.

SPEAKER_02:

Like well, you're fearful of Roy Cooper, too. Yeah. Worse. Worse than Roy.

SPEAKER_03:

Roy just didn't do nothing.

SPEAKER_11:

No, and I'm surprised he's running for Senate because he's set up to run for the Democrat nomination for president. He went out 60% approval, over 60%. Um, he didn't fuck anything up. The Republicans in the General Assembly kept the ship sailing. He got vetoed for two years. Right? So, like I Josh Stein's already doing better. I'll tell you what, I hope I I hope you continue to do this good.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, we will we'll definitely save this conversation for the next episode, for another episode, excuse me. And uh we'll kind of go from there. But man, thank you for coming on again. Absolutely. Me and Chad very appreciate it, and we hope you have a very Merry Christmas. You and the family and the girls.

SPEAKER_11:

Happy holidays to everybody out there. Merry Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. That's right. We say Merry Christmas.

SPEAKER_03:

We say Merry Christmas. All right, guys. Well, if you uh if you like what you hear, you want to see us, go to our YouTube channel and subscribe. Off the hook Bell Bonds Podcast on YouTube. Check us out. You can see us, and you can see Hunter's pretty face here. Since, you know. He's got the momentum on the show. He's getting prepared, doesn't he? He's always sporting the momentum stuff, man. I've got some old stuff like that. It's still at the house. Oh, and off the hook gear, baby. Right here. I got it on. He's got it on. Get that trigger fish, baby.

SPEAKER_02:

The trigger fish has been hot. People love the trigger fish.

SPEAKER_03:

Got the hat on, got the shirt. You know, you can't, you know. Off the hookgear.shop. Yes, go check that out. But other than that, until then, I am Rob. I'm Chad. And this is Hunter. We'll see you next time. Peace.

SPEAKER_10:

You've been listening to Off the Hook with Chad and Rob. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate, and review. And be sure to follow us for notifications for another exciting episode. But in the meantime, you can go to our website at www.offthehookbill.com to see more. So until next time, stay out of trouble, or it'll be you that needs to get off the hook. See you soon.

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