Off The Hook
We are a group of private investigators, bounty hunters / fugitive recovery agents, and bail bondsmen that have been in this line of work for over twenty five years and have many stories to tell. We have traveled all over the country catching fugitives and bringing them back to have their day in court. With our years of experience we are trying to educate the public about bail and why it is a needed part of our judicial system.
Off The Hook
Running from Responsibility: The Real Stories of Bail Bonds
Step into the unpredictable world of bail bonding with this episode, where captivating stories reveal the unique motivations behind why some individuals choose to disappear after their release from jail. We delve deep into the fascinating case of Pookie, a member of the Lumbee tribe, offering insights into how cultural backgrounds and personal histories can influence decisions about court responsibilities.
Our lively conversation humorously addresses the myriad of bizarre calls received by bond agents, revealing the more human side of this often overlooked profession. Learn how social media has revolutionized the way bondsmen connect with communities in their pursuit of individuals who skip bail, transforming the process into a shared community effort. We engage with important themes surrounding accountability, family dynamics, and the intertwining of cultural factors that drive people’s choices.
As we explore Pookie's story, we uncover the broader insights that speak not just to the bail process but also to the societal issues at play in communities. This episode is not just about bonding; it's a deeper dive into justice, human nature, and the complexities of navigating life on the edge of the law. Subscribe, share, and join us for a unique perspective on a complex world!
When people are released from jail, they have the responsibility to appear in court, but some of these people choose to go on the run. They go back home to mommy and that is when these guys come into the picture. So sit back and listen to the Off the Hook podcast with chad and rob very fine people on both sides. These are real stories, but the names have been changed what's going on, guys?
Speaker 3:I'm rob and I am chad yeah, how you been chad, and it's been cold as shit. Yeah, that's kind of our heat.
Speaker 2:We've been having issues with our some kind of signal thing that, yeah, how you been, chad, it's been cold as shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has Our heat. We've been having issues with some kind of signal thing that signals our heater to turn on, some kind of relay or something.
Speaker 2:Anyway, getting that fixed as we speak, oh, good, I think I hope Next week it's supposed to be like in the 60s to 70s. I don't get it, man. This is why everybody's getting sick.
Speaker 3:Like in the 60s to 70s. I don't get it man.
Speaker 2:This is why everybody's getting sick. I will be in Florida. Oh yeah, that's right, you will be taking the phone calls. Enjoy, I don't have All right, so let me kind of explain to you guys about how we do things in the bail bonding industry. So Chad gets all the calls, he filters all the calls, calls and something comes in, he calls me.
Speaker 3:You can only imagine the people that call me.
Speaker 2:I mean, and then like we've had some really stupid calls here lately, yeah, and one this morning I put on speaker for you, yeah, yeah. He puts it on speaker and he's like are you ready? I'm like no, I'm not, I don't have patience, like this man does this. Man's got patience with joe, but I don't. I don't know how he does it, but when the phones get forward to me, you aren't to see my face our google ratings go down I'm over there jawing, I can't stand it.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I say uh, we got, we got to stay on top, man you got to be good.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to deal with the idiots.
Speaker 2:I tell you, and we're going to have Regina on here soon, yeah, yeah, yeah, a separate one. Yeah, a separate one. It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 3:So I'm excited.
Speaker 2:What are you excited about?
Speaker 3:Cash Patel.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Man, I'm excited. What are you excited about Cash Patel? Oh yeah, man, I saw an awesome video of him coming out on stage after he got confirmed to Metallica Inner Sandman.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep.
Speaker 3:Sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight. Was he sending a message? Maybe? I think so.
Speaker 2:What about, dude? I want to see the Epstein list. I want to see that. I want to see the Epstein list. I want to see that. I want to see the Diddy list. Yeah, the list.
Speaker 3:You're going to see some people. You're going to see a mass exodus from the States, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:I mean, these people like the people that are like that hate, just absolutely have the Trump derangement syndrome Right. These people, it doesn't matter, it can be the worst of the worst and saying what they did, but they're still going to go against him just because it's trump and it's his pick. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:If hey, if you're not on the list, you ain't got nothing to worry about, right? So sit back and relax and watch. Get your popcorn ready.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's gonna get good and what's it with the algorithm on like tiktok and all these reels?
Speaker 3:yeah, I don't know I get I started getting like a bunch of liberal crap and for some reason I don't like get into that stuff.
Speaker 2:I get trapped because I'll go and comment uh see, yeah, I think that's where it gets you that's what they want me to do and I fall for it, you know but I don't help it. But I got up like today when I first check.
Speaker 3:You know what you know, wearing freaking cat ears or something talking about. I hate trump and they're terrible people. You know it's a fear monger I saw bernie this morning.
Speaker 2:I opened up TikTok. He has Bernie going. Hey, I need your support. So I need you to donate. I'm like motherfucker, how much money do you need? Bro? You've got like over years You've been like what the hell? Yeah, well, I know I'm sick of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, we got um right at four years. I mean, Trump's only been in there for 30 days.
Speaker 2:It's only been 30 days.
Speaker 3:Liberals are losing their minds.
Speaker 2:It's going to be a long four years for you people, man, yeah, I'll tell you what Y'all better get a safe space. I'll tell you what the therapists throughout the entire country are going to like bank money. Oh man, that's right man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, these little online therapy things. You've seen that like it seems like every time I'm like listening to my, I listen to my uh thing while I'm at the gym, you know spotify or whatever, and like commercial, come on, you know, because I don't, I don't pay for that. You know I'll suck it up. Listen to a commercial, but anyway it's like try so and so. Therapy. It's like therapy, therapy, therapy. Like there's a lot of mentally messed up people. If there's this many commercials for therapy on your radio stations and stuff, like growing up we didn't have that, yeah, but we're fine. Like there's a lot of messed up in the head people there is and they think they're right, but I'm the one that's just sitting back chilling and I'm good. Oh, that could be you, rob. They want to talk about a bond and they got. They got fifty dollars and it's a hundred thousand dollar bond.
Speaker 2:We take payments click, click, right, all right. So on this episode, everybody, we're going to talk about a case that, uh, it was right when I came on again, uh, about 10 years ago, and chad here, who wrote that bomb? Was it you?
Speaker 3:uh, yeah, yeah so. So I had a guy Well, actually, he was on bond afterwards that this happened. So we have another office in Brunswick County. It's a little place that I bought years ago and I've been working on over and over. Anyway, I had stripped it down to the studs and needed some sheetrock work and one of the guys we had on bond this guy we'll call him Pookie and he is a Lumbee Indian From the Lumbee tribe, right, and so we didn't know the history of Pookie when we bonded him out. We later found out. So there's a situation that happened.
Speaker 2:Hold on Before we get into the story, though. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a special.
Speaker 3:that happened so hold on Before we get into the story though. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, I got a special story time music for you?
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, surprise me Just because. All right, you ready. Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go see you on May 31st. Yeah, love it. All right, all right, all right. Yes, good story time. Good story time, you like that? Yeah, yeah, I see how it all tied. I like kind of mixing it up a little bit.
Speaker 2:Good you do all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, so all right, so the bond. You wrote the bond. What out of what county?
Speaker 3:oh, um, brunswick county. Okay, yeah, so, um sorry, I got a little situation there. Uh, it's having to do with my heat well guys picture trying to get a hold of me anyway. Um yeah, brunswick county, ten thousand dollar bond, I remember, and dude was with his brother-in-law or something and these guys were breaking into an impound yard stealing stuff off of boats, off of boats, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because Brunswick County is right. But how did he end up from the Lumberton area to Brunswick County.
Speaker 3:I have no idea, man, I don't know. But I mean, you know Brunswick County runs, you know it's not that far away, but who knows, they probably left their area and decided to venture out and steal somewhere else. So they were breaking in this boatyard stealing stuff off of boats, got caught and his family called me and we said all right, we ended up doing the bond. We try to do our best, like I've said before, but you just don't know what's going to happen. Anyway, hooky misses court, duh, and so we're having to deal with him because he's all the way in Red Springs. Red Springs is right, it's a little area right outside of um and they're very crooked. Yeah, he was um. They're very protective, they're in their little groups out there, everybody's a locklear, an oxendine jacobs.
Speaker 3:There's one more. Yeah, there's like one more, I can't remember.
Speaker 2:It was like it's a simple name too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but there's like four major names and that's it. You know, and it's strange, but anyway that's how it is there in their little community. Anyway, we start looking for Pookie doing the online stuff. You know we're looking at family members. And I remember oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Coming back to you. It's been a long time, man, it's been 10 years.
Speaker 3:Some of these stories kind of get together, but I remember more about this one. This one pertained to Slammer Picks, actually. Oh yeah, later. On.
Speaker 2:I do remember that too. I remember you telling me that.
Speaker 3:Alright, so I remember we went down and we went to the house at night and we went down a gravel road. Behind it was like they had like a kind of almost a field behind his like trailer that he lived in Manufactured home, some kind of home like that. Anyway, we went behind. I think it was me and you and James.
Speaker 2:Now, I don't think I was with you on this one yeah, yeah, this is when.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, it was at nighttime. We were behind it and we were looking with binoculars to see, because he had two grown sons and uh, people keep calling me man, um, anyway, um I don't think I was with you on this one.
Speaker 2:On that one you weren't.
Speaker 3:I was with you when we called them okay, all right, so maybe it's just me and james and uh, and oh, it's busy right now. Um, this sucks because it hasn't been all week.
Speaker 1:Yeah we have to sit here and watch it while we're doing a podcast anyway.
Speaker 3:Um, we're watching james and i's nighttime. Um, I remember it was really wet out there at night and the dew and uh, I had had a cut on my foot and I didn't realize it. And um, that night, I mean, we we didn't see anything, we just saw his sons. We, we couldn't identify him, so we kind of had a wasted trip that night well, it's not wasted, it's not.
Speaker 2:Well, we didn't, we didn't get him.
Speaker 3:But we we got, you know, we did get some information. He wasn't there and turns out he was, uh, doing truck driving. He was, he was, he would go and he would come back. We later found out so he was on the road. A lot gotcha. So those are hard to get because you know you got to catch them when they're home and some of these trips where they're going cross country they're gone for a week at a time or better. So anyway, um, I had, I put him on Flammer Picks, remember that? Yep.
Speaker 3:And then what I would do is, once I make the wanted post on there with this picture and contact us for information and reward, and I would slip it. I would use a fake girl and go into a fake account. I would find his account. You have a circle of people around you that know you, even though you may not be active on Facebook. You can bet some of your family or close friends in your circle are right.
Speaker 3:So if I take that post and I copy that link, I send it, just blast it out, yeah, send it to them, or I just put it on my fake girl timeline, it's going to get some attention. It's going to get some attention. What's cool about this thing is I can go into my Google Analytics and I can see who is on that site, what city they're at down to, what kind of device they're on. I can tell you if it's a Samsung or an iPhone, or if it's an iPad, or a desktop or an iPhone, or if it's an iPad or a desktop which is important because most of the time it's cell phones, so you're mobile, but if it's desktop, now you're looking at it from a stationary place, right, right.
Speaker 3:So these are all notable things to take note of and it'll give you a general vicinity if you have a lot of people viewing it. So I would take screenshots of the map when I would post that out there, because one person's going to take it and they're going to share it like oh shoot, pookie, look here. He wanted you know, yeah, that kind of thing, you're jabbing them, right, you're jabbing that and you're, and you're uh, did you offer a reward?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because you usually do. Yeah, yeah, I had a reward on it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so what happened was a little time went by.
Speaker 2:I remember it was getting down to the nitty gritty.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah, it was getting down. I mean he was good, he was really staying put. But we got a call from, uh, from a girl that saw the post. She was a scorned girlfriend.
Speaker 2:Oh god, I love him I'll tell you what I'm gonna. Pause you right there. Y'all y'all women, man, when y'all y'all get burned by a dude, some of y'all women like to come after the dudes.
Speaker 3:Man, bless you, right, I mean hey, it pays, right, you can get him. And you know, evidently Pookie did something bad and this girl, she called me up. She said I'll help you get him, I want the reward. And I was like, okay, cool. She said, all right, he's going to be here, he's coming over this weekend, all right, so that's when I got you and James. I remember we got all geared up and we had our vests.
Speaker 2:Because we're going into a bad area.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, this is a rough area, and so we're all. I remember we got to Red Springs and we went down from a little gas station in the field and we all got our gear on out there, right, so we're ready to roll.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in the. I wasn't driving. I think James was driving.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So she calls and says he's going to be here in like 30 minutes Because he was coming from probably his house over to her house.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:I remember she lived down some gravel road other side of Like a big trailer park is what it was. Yeah, yeah, pretty much, and so we roll. So, um, we roll up, give it some time, we're down the street, we know what vehicles in and we parked backed up in some some yes.
Speaker 2:And we saw him come in, yeah, so so yeah, we we we confirmed that he came and he went in and we let him get into the house. Yep and um, I remember, I remember y'all going over the game plan because I, like I said, I wasn't much in on this one because this is something that I was, I was new. Oh, this has been, like I said 10 years ago and um, they're like all right, rob, all right, when we pull up, I was going to take the back door To make sure he didn't get out the back door. I was going to be back there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Pookie had been to prison before, and so those are the people you know they don't want to go back. So they're the ones that you know you got to be leery about. So we pull up in the driveway. Everybody jumps out. You know you run in the driveway, everybody jumps out. You know you run for the back. Me and James go to the front, you know y'all go in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we go, we go in. And she, she pretty much left the door cracked for us, I believe. And I remember him coming out of a the little hallway and we just, james and I both just put him on the ground in the living room, you know, and he was like, oh, y'all wouldn't have got me. You know, he started talking junk, you know, immediately, and uh, I remember him talking about um, he knew, he knew we were looking for him, but duh, I mean, he missed court.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you know, I think the post you know got back to him, which is fine, you know, whatever you got, like we said, you got to be right all the time. We just got to be right one time, one time.
Speaker 2:One time only, and this one time was the one that worked. Yeah, I remember like our communications uh was like real spotty out there and I stayed outside. I was like what the hell's going on inside? And so I go, I go, I just I randomly walk in there and I see him. They got him in handcuffs and they're trying to get his shoes on and stuff, and the whole time they've got Pookie taken care of, right. So I'm on the front porch kind of watching our backs pretty much, and I start seeing lights come on, neighbors and people come out. I'm like dude, I'm not feeling too right about this. We need to get the hell up out of here.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, Well, everybody, yeah, it's a very close-knit community out there, you know, and you know we kind of stick out. So we're definitely getting him and getting the hell out of there. So we get down the road. I remember we got him in the car, got down the road and he started talking about y'all couldn't have caught me if I was, you know, you know, outside. Yeah, I remember that. Now, Pookie was not a thin individual, he did not look like a truck. I think we laughed at it. We pretty much laughed at it.
Speaker 2:He's like okay, whatever, dude.
Speaker 3:He was like you would like to maybe test our tasers out, you know. So how would you run after we shot you with that? You know?
Speaker 2:he was just talking up mad junk. Yeah, I, I remember that, I remember.
Speaker 3:Just did I just kind of like laughing at him, like yeah, like whatever dude it's, it's a great feeling when you, you know you're all hype, your adrenaline's running, when you know when you're about to do all this and when you finally get them in handcuffs, man, it's like miller time, you know but you know, yeah, it is, and it takes a while.
Speaker 2:Have you noticed, after you get somebody, like back then, after you get somebody, you're like you're still ready to go afterwards, yeah yeah, you get that adrenaline but when you get that, when it stops and it that does that, that drilling dump yeah and you're like done you're exhausted.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it takes a lot out of you, man, it does. Yeah, um, but that was a good one, you know, getting him that, yeah. So so what happened on this was that was the the slammer pick post. She saw that and and that's that was the key that gave us the advantage, and that's that's kind of what I've told other bondsmen. I'm like you should. You should be posting on this Facebook's only as good as your friends and who shares it.
Speaker 2:Social media Like but. But it's good.
Speaker 3:I've seen it work a bunch. Oh, dude, dude ran off and later I found out that he was in. Uh, what is that? Joe Apico? Um, the guy who has tent city, arizona? Oh, yeah, yeah, is it Arizona, new Mexico, arizona, somewhere like that, where the sheriff makes all the inmates sleep outside in tents? Yeah, yeah, he's um. Anyway, this guy ended up there. Oh, this was back a long time ago, before I had. I don't know if I told that story or not. I'm gonna have to research. I need to tell that one that was before the internet was as we know it you know it wasn't as user-friendly it was.
Speaker 3:You've got mail, so everybody, all the all these law enforcement agencies and stuff like that they weren't reporting online or you didn't have inventory of jail databases, stuff like that. So this was back in the olden days when you were tracking the old way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And he ran off that far, so that's pretty difficult. Now the Internet's made the world smaller, right? Oh yeah, yeah, much more. You know younger bondsmen don't know how good you got it, so that's pretty difficult. Now the internet's made the world smaller, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, much more. You know, you, you younger bondsman, don't know how good you got it, um, so you need to take advantage. But again, slammer picks.
Speaker 2:I remember seeing, like growing up, I remember going to the post office and seeing one of the pictures. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's how it used to be. Yeah, how many people are going to see that, right? So I came up with with this thing and I put it. Put it on there, and so I drive you up in the I do seo. What people don't know what that is? People that own businesses know what seo is. Seo is search engine optimization and so you want to be the top ranking um businesses that show up when you google something, right, right. So that's what I do with these people's names, so that, no matter where they go, like the brother that found him in Costa Rica you know, he saw my post and like he said, yeah, my brother's over here, come get him. He's stealing from people out here, like heavy equipment, like stuff like that. Yeah, he was taking stuff off job sites or something in Costa Rica. So I mean, you know it follows you all over the place and, like you know, just putting stuff on Facebook. It's only as good as how many friends you've got Right who shares it, oh that.
Speaker 3:And you've just got nowhere to target people too, with it True, in which we do that, but it also is working in a bigger capacity this way, because facebook stuff isn't shared, uh, via search. You know you don't see search results with facebook typically, right, it's not, I think, every once in a while, but not not a lot. So you want to increase your odds, anyway, what else was it about, buki?
Speaker 2:Remember he was a long time ago. We found out he was a part of this big Right.
Speaker 3:So after all this we found out there was some history I didn't know about. I think James did. He told me about Operation Tarnish Badge tarnish badge which he told us on the ride home that is that what it was? Yes, so yes, operation tarnish badge was a situation in uh, robeson county. Out there, um, in lumberton area where they had a situation with that dirty cops, yeah, the whole police department it's, it's still like that.
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't say that now, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:But back then, I think the FBI or somebody came in and they went through and found that it was all corrupt. They were basically going up to drug dealers' houses and shaking them down for money, and I think it was said that Pookie was one of those dealers, yep, and they burnt his house down.
Speaker 2:That's why the tensions are so harsh between the cops out there and the Lumbees. Yeah, because of that.
Speaker 3:So you know, as bondsmen we're looked at as as law enforcement. So we're kind of in the middle and like we're not greeted openly.
Speaker 2:No, we're not law enforcement. They look at us like cause, I mean we're, we're there to get somebody.
Speaker 3:Right, we have handcuffs and we got a badge and you know we. So you know we're kind of looked at like you know they're they don't want to. They don't want to cooperate with us. Well, you know, and help us. So that's I don't like going to lumberton. No, I don't either. I don't either um. I'm not saying anything bad about people, but they are very yeah, secretive, and you know they keep their people together.
Speaker 3:you know they together. They don't want to tell on nobody, no matter what they're doing. It seems like Anyway, yeah, the whole tarnished badge thing. So he was a part of that. So, yeah, that was some history that we would have liked to have known.
Speaker 2:We would have known more about him and how he's going to run hard. I think he went to prison, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:He went to prison, but I don't know if he's gotten out or not. That's something we might have looked at. Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 2:We'll look up and see, all right, but um, well, that's about it for this one. This, that was awesome. That was god. That was a long time ago, right there. That was yeah, that's been a while back and I remember being like kind of worried because we're going to a bad spot and I heard all about Lumberton. Now I've gotten people out of Lumberton since then and I swear when somebody says, oh, I got to skip Lumberton, I go. You know what, find somebody else.
Speaker 3:Now, yeah, I don't want to. Yeah, yeah, I remember when we did, we did one where we had to go right after a hurricane, remember, remember, and we go get that guy in Lumberton and, uh, and the roads were flooded because, uh, lumberton got it real bad. Yeah, I mean all that, all that water, they don't. They had hoses down the middle of the street to divert, you know. Oh God, yeah I remember that, yeah, yes, and we, we took to go meet the bondsman. We picked him up from somebody else.
Speaker 2:That has been a long time ago.
Speaker 3:Anyway, that's another story.
Speaker 2:That's another story. I mean, we keep coming up like, oh man, I forgot about this one, I forgot about that one. That's why we got to get them out.
Speaker 3:You're going to forget them over time and they kind of blend together, but we got to get them told Well blend together, but we got to get them told.
Speaker 2:I know Well, we haven't had any forfeitures lately and I don't want to see none. No, which is nice. I want to keep that away. I would rather tell old stories than new stories, that's for sure, correct.
Speaker 3:That is very correct.
Speaker 2:Well, that was the story of Pookie the Lumbee Indian, the Lumbee Indian, the Lumbee, who just stole stuff. He stole everything.
Speaker 3:If it's not nailed down, he would take it. That's right.
Speaker 2:Well, guys, thank you for tuning in. This is another great episode of a good old story that Chad told today, and if you like what you hear, you can see us also on YouTube. Go to Off the Hook Bell Bonds podcast and you can see our pretty faces, or whatever you think of our faces.
Speaker 1:You can see us.
Speaker 2:Comment, subscribe, follow. You know the whole nine, the whole nine. Yeah, look us up on Spotify If you're watching us. Some people like to watch us on YouTube, some people like to listen to us on Spotify. It's a little mixture of both and we appreciate you guys. We thank you very much, but until then, I'm Rob, I'm Chad, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 1:Peace. You've been listening to Off the Hook with Chad and Rob. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and review, and be sure to follow us for notifications for another exciting episode. But in the meantime, you can go to our website at wwwoffthehookbillcom to see more. So until next time, stay out of trouble, or it'll be you that needs to get off the hook. Billcom to see more. So until next time, stay out of trouble, or it'll be you that needs to get off the hook. See you soon.