Off The Hook

Behind the Scenes with The Bail Queen of NYC

Chad and Rob Season 1 Episode 4

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Ever wondered what really happens behind the scenes in the bail bond industry? Today, we have the pleasure of hosting Michelle Esquinazi, famously known as the Bail Queen of New York City. Michelle shares her remarkable journey from Brooklyn bail bond entrepreneur to a fierce advocate against bail reform in Albany. Get ready for a deep dive into the world of bail bondsmen, the critical role they play in ensuring public safety, and the often untold impact on crime victims.

Michelle helps dispel common myths and misconceptions about the bail bond industry, especially the unique challenges faced in New York City. Her firsthand stories reveal the rigorous court processes and judicial approvals necessary for presenting bonds, shedding light on what it's like to navigate this complex field. From her memorable nickname "The Bail Bond Queen" to high-stakes insurance scams and heartwarming support for an honorably discharged Marine, Michelle’s candid insights are both eye-opening and engaging.

The episode also explores the evolving landscape of the bail industry, from the transition to Empire Bonding and Insurance Co. to the ongoing political battles, including a controversial Alabama bill. Michelle shares a personal triumph from a successful skip trace operation and introduces the National Association of Bail Agents, underscoring her dedication to the profession. Stick around for our adventurous Florida bounty hunting escapades, where unexpected detours and unique experiences add an exciting twist to our journey. Don't miss out on this thrilling episode filled with surprises and valuable insights!

Speaker 1:

when people are released from jail, they have the responsibility to appear in court, but some of these people choose to go on the run they go back home to mommy and that is when these guys come into the picture. So sit back and listen to the off the Hook Podcast with Chad and Rob Very fine people on both sides. These are real stories, but the names have been changed.

Speaker 2:

What's going on, everybody? This is a special episode, episode number four of Off the Hook Podcast. I am Rob. And I am chad and it's so good to have you back again and listening to us. So today, our special episode episode is we got a first guest and she is probably the most badass woman I've ever met. I love her half to death. We've known her for years, me and Chad. She has had her back through thick and thin. Her name is Michelle Esquinazi.

Speaker 3:

Also known as the Belle Queen of New York City.

Speaker 2:

How you doing, Michelle.

Speaker 4:

Good morning how you guys doing.

Speaker 2:

Good good, can't ask any better. We got you here.

Speaker 4:

I know, what's that?

Speaker 3:

You got something.

Speaker 4:

Y'all are my favorites. You know that.

Speaker 2:

That's right. Well, thank you. How's your day been?

Speaker 4:

It's been a little hectic. I've probably been on the phone before. Got a call from South Carolina at 730 this morning. You know regular.

Speaker 2:

It just don't stop with you Putting out fires. Do you sleep?

Speaker 4:

Yes, yes, I do sleep, because my children know that if there's an emergency, they can go to my house.

Speaker 2:

We're illusioning you a little bit, You're breaking up a little bit you're breaking it you're breaking up a little bit, but it's okay. Um, all right. Well, we're gonna go ahead and get into it, michelle, and we're gonna kind of like leave the floor up to you, because you're you know, you're the guest and you're the, the lady that knows everything, just about. So, um, chad, go ahead, and you go ahead and start it off.

Speaker 3:

Let's see. We're going to ask if you would explain what it is that you are doing in the bail industry, kind of what your role is and has been over the years. If you could explain some of that.

Speaker 4:

Well, it's a long winded answer, so I hope you all people that are listening have time, because I was just, you know the bail bond queen in New York when I had heard in 2012 that there was this thing coming called bail reform and that maybe I should scoot up to Albany with these suit and tie type folk from the bail bond industry. Well, you guys know me a long time. I'm born and raised in Brooklyn, new York. I'm not like that. You know what I mean Love it.

Speaker 4:

Anyway, I'm running bail in the biggest city, you know period, and I decided that yeah, I'm going to go. If somebody's trying to come for my family, I want to see who's coming. You know what I mean. That's why I am who, I am right. So you know, I start to realize what this thing is, and it's quite a big animal, if you will. But at the time our Senate, which is our higher house, was held by real Republicans and they just told me you know, go ahead, Michelle. I knew, you know Senator Golden from the neighborhood and he said go ahead, show and explain to everybody why it's bad. We're not going to vote on this thing anyhow.

Speaker 4:

so you just go ahead and explain to us what it is, because the other people coming in here telling us it's the best thing since sliced bread, and I was like oh, no, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I started my path of explaining, um, and I kind of never stopped. It got to a point where I said to my business partners my niece and my nephew I said I think I'm going to buy a little condo in Albany. I can't take it with the hotels anymore. You know what I mean. And um, nispa, which I found in 2007 as a not-for-profit and essentially just to report bad operators to the department and kind of keep the business tight, became a voice in Albany and my voice became part of that voice. So with that, I started bringing some of my knowledge a little bit forward to you, gentlemen, and to several others in our industry, saying, hey, wait a minute, we might be street entrepreneurs, kind of like the funeral man, the sanitation guy.

Speaker 4:

Not everybody got a fancy job. You know what I mean? We don't have fans, right, we have nest jobs. Yeah, garbage on the streets. Somebody's got to come pick that up, you understand? So you know it's the same thing with criminal defendants that fail to appear. The united states wasn't created to have them just wandering through our neighborhoods raping and pillaging and causing havoc without any accountability. Excuse me, I mean that might be a euphoric world that this global political ideology has created and brought here to the United States of America in a very, very loud way, but I don't prescribe to it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And my people don't prescribe to it.

Speaker 2:

The world's not made up of rainbows and unicorns.

Speaker 4:

No, it is so not made up of rainbows and unicorns. And the one thing I will tell you that a politician, regardless of which side they're on, I will tell you that a politician, regardless of which side they're on, they never really want to talk about too much, is what we do, especially y'all Okay, cause you know me, I don't do what y'all do. You know you go hunt the warranted. You hunt fugitives. Okay, I don't do that. But they don't want to ever talk about how we make the victim of crime whole by doing what y'all do, by going to New Mexico and grabbing that dude and bringing him back to North Carolina and forth to the high order of the court. The victim has their right to make a victim impact statement.

Speaker 4:

Likely, there's a crime of of a human. You know a human crime, a crime against a human. You know, especially when you're dealing with the felonious level like you gentlemen were dealing with in that New Mexico thing. You know, and the narrative of who we are has been drowned out by george soros money, because all of us were working like we're just trying to feed our kids and stuff. You know we're, we're low man on the triple. I started realizing that when rhino crispy cream put my brothers and sisters at a river 15 miles away in New Jersey. They annihilated those, annihilated them in one night. Boom done, boom, done. That's not what we put in. The Speaker of the House recently said, and I quote on the color TV he said he's from Louisiana. He said chaos is not a conservative value. Well, call me conservative Chaos. I got too many children and grandchildren.

Speaker 2:

Well you look 29. That's all I got to say.

Speaker 4:

What you look, 29.

Speaker 2:

That's all I got to say what you look 29.

Speaker 3:

She's not falling for that Southern bullshit, bro, I know you're cute, I try You're cute, so let's see. So, michelle, how long have you been?

Speaker 4:

in the business Since right after my son was born. He just turned 30 last November, so that long. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, for you listeners that are listening in on this, michelle is a very strong, strong woman and she has very good conservative beliefs and it's you know, I think a lot of people in New York have that but it's so corrupt up there that you know you're dealing with. You know dealing with like New Jersey now bail reform. But so, talking about New York and your companies up there, tell us about your businesses up there. What do you, what do you have, what's your name of your businesses and how long?

Speaker 4:

I'm the founder and the CEO and president of Empire Bail Bonds, so Empire is the largest funding company in New York. My niece and my nephew are my business partners and always have been since they were kids, and that's the bail bond agencies that we have. When you see something on television I don't know a cop, a mafia guy not that there's the mafia um, anyway, you know stuff like that um, invariably empire's in the back room.

Speaker 2:

You know writing the bond quietly, I mean I see it when the last time I think me and chad were both up there. We were hunting in brooklyn one time and that's a. That's another episode. Uh, we were hunting in brook and, yeah, on Albany and Pacific. Oh, for some reason I remember that. I don't know why.

Speaker 4:

Oh Lord.

Speaker 2:

So that was a fun. That's another episode, though. Let's see, Jay, what you got it for.

Speaker 3:

Let's see, oh yeah.

Speaker 4:

So what's it like to to do bail in new york, the city I mean it's it's got to be different than the way we do it here well, it's very different in terms of the fact that we've maintained the integrity of the exchange because we don't like you guys like y'all sign bonds at the jail.

Speaker 2:

Right, right right.

Speaker 4:

Four-letter word and turn it into two syllables, like D-E-N-D-N. Jail. Okay, so y'all sign bonds at the jail. We don't do that. We take our bond into court, present it to the clerk. It's then given up to the judge for review and then we're called into the clerk. It's then given up to the judge for review and then we're called into the. Well, you raise your right hand, you're sworn in on the record and the judge will either accept the bond or not.

Speaker 3:

Just out of curiosity. I don't mean to interrupt you, but do they do that because they want to know where that money's coming from in New York?

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Okay, I thought that's what it was for.

Speaker 4:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

You can't just slip a bond through that. A judge doesn't like Gotcha. Now quick question for you. I meant to ask you to use this at the start of the episode, but how in the hell did you get the name? The bell bond queen?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's a short story, it really is.

Speaker 4:

And, um, he should rest in peace.

Speaker 4:

Um, there was a gentleman that I used to do a lot of business with in today's day and age he wouldn't be in as much trouble because of all the marijuana laws, but, um, you know, he was a narcotics entrepreneur and um, and he was a very good businessman. Invariably he would get jammed up we call it pinched, you know in different places, and he would make that one phone call to me and, knowing that, I sleep with my cell phone, so, regardless of what time zone he was on, and he would tell me I'm arrested in West Bobolton, texas. You know, my bond is I don't know, $300,000. And I'll see you when I get home. And I would say to him all right, I got you, you know, and I would get him out or his people, whatever he said, essentially because he was a man of honor, he was a man of his word, what he said, he did, what he did. He said you know what I mean of his word, what he said, he did, what he did, he said, you know what I mean. So I got him out of jail for, and his people, for many, many, many years, and he would call me from a jail and he'd be like queen, queen, queen, you know, and it just stuck and then the street queen and it just stuck nice

Speaker 2:

I gotcha, I gotcha. What's the craziest pickup that you've done? Personally?

Speaker 4:

well they have, because you know I don't like to break my nails. I'm saying like I'm a little, yeah, so I stopped doing that when I was much younger. But I would say, probably one of the most famous ones is that there was this guy that I got out of jail. He had a really really high powered attorney he's still on CNN, this lawyer and he was a big case and I had to pretend he was dead and the coast guard went looking for him. It was like an insurance scam, you know, and he used the kid, his kid and the stepmom um to you know, to do this whole thing and the death got out indemnitors.

Speaker 4:

But the son was stuck in jail on a $10,000 bond and he was a little kid. He was like I don't know, 17, 18. No, no, no, I'm sorry, he wasn't a kid, he was like 19 because he was discharged from the Marines. So he wasn't a kid kid. Might've even been in his young twenties, he just looked like a kid, but whatever. So, anyway, I told you know, joey Jay, that I would get him out of jail and, as long as you know, empire could get the coverage on TV. I figured, eh, it was worth it. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4:

Smart thinking yeah, I mean, you know. So I smashed Empire's shirt on him and I marched his ass out the jail, knowing that every major network around the united states was going to get that same image, because there was only one image of the guy coming out to jail and that was me holding him, taking him out to jail with the empire shirt on.

Speaker 4:

That's awesome, that's smart correction buddies that know me from a kid. Well, I like I gotta do whatever the fuck you want, michelle, whatever, so anyway. So I turned him into a human postcard, human advertising billboard, but anyway, he had nowhere to go, he had nowhere to live. So me and my team, we paid for a motel for him for like a half a year. We sent clothes, we sent food, we sent hot plate. We really took care of this kid, and that was because he was an honorably discharged Marine.

Speaker 4:

So, jojo, my Jojo, she's my check in. You know, she watches my people. She comes to my office and she goes. Boss, jonathan Roth didn't check in today. Boss, you missed court. What do you mean? You missed court. What are you talking about? You missed court? Oh yeah, you missed court. I said you missed court. Okay, I called in the bounty hunters, right and lo and behold, that night my bounty hunter, jay Ramos, hollywood, says to me I said he's in fucking ohio. I said well, go get him, bring him back to me. So and call me a second, you have his ass in the car. So they get to ohio and they spot the house that he's in. He's with another former Marine. You know, marines are trained to kill. You know that right. So what's the best possible thing that you can do to deter a man that's a heterosexual? Um, there are these. Yup, we love you.

Speaker 2:

There are these, yep. We love you.

Speaker 4:

So, anyway, I said to my lead guy I said go to the bar on the corner, the biggest dive bar you could find. Take one of those C-notes that I gave you, give it to some chick, tell her to knock on the door and the car is broken down. When you make eye contact with the defendant and you visually see him, as you both know, we have the right to enter the premise. It was on the application. Okay, so that's exactly what happened Knock, knock, blonde. And they were like hey, hey, hey. And then the hundredth time too, and they snatched his ass up and threw him in the car. And as soon as they got him back to New York, I called all the press, I put on my Empire Bail Bond bling shirt, I had my other girl with me with bling, and I had my hunters in the back of me and I produced the whole thing and I put it all over the color TV and I'm not sure if it worked better for Empire, but I sure wasn't going to be lost on that moment.

Speaker 2:

Very good so speaking of that, which leads us into our next question, Chad's going to ask.

Speaker 3:

So what do you not like? That the media has lied about you?

Speaker 4:

Oh boys, you not like that. The media has lied about you. Oh, boys, I'd say the biggest thing that the media lies about is that we are predatory, um, and that we are racist, um. The bail bond industry is made up of black, white, green, orange polka dotted Today's Juneteenth, by the way, many African-American business owners, many female African-American business owners, especially in the deep South, and I'm headed to Mississippi tomorrow to be their speaker. So the misconception and and also LGBTQ I mean we have a ton of people in our industry that are gay and we could care less. We just want to build a community amongst each other that is trustworthy, that is professional and that renders excellent service, and I believe that's what we do. I don't believe that that's spoken about, but that's why the connection to Jim Wahlberg and Evoke Wellness and everything that I'm working on is so important, because the other side has Soros, beyonce, jay-z, john Legend, common the rapper, and the NFL.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, my next question to you we go from negative to positive right. Now to you we go from negative to positive, right?

Speaker 4:

now, what is your greatest accomplishment in the industry? Oh, in the bail industry. I would say that 100%. It would have to be growing from empire bail bond agencies to empire bonding and insurance Co, which started off as a one-state surety which we created just to insure ourselves, essentially kind of like they do down south with the property bonding stuff that they work on over there. But in New York it's different. We had to actually become an insurance company and now we're licensed in, I believe, eight to 10 states and we've been in existence for 11 to 12 years.

Speaker 2:

Gotcha, that's awesome. I know you said something about Jay Ramos while ago. I've done some stuff for him too, and it's funny how our whole circle comes around and how many people. What's your next one?

Speaker 3:

Oh, what is your goal for the next four years, with the election coming up?

Speaker 4:

That is a loaded one, pretty loaded. Well, I have two different answers based upon the election results. Okay, if the election results go north, then I will go south.

Speaker 2:

I think I'm not too far behind you.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I don't know if you all will see me as much anymore and if the election results go in a DJT way, in a T-rump way, rump way, then you will see me a lot for the next four years and we will talk bail. You know, because I'm a kid from New York City. I know about the Trump family long before people knew about the Trump family. My grandmother and my whole family lives in Coney Island, Brooklyn, and across the way Trump's daddy, Fred Trump, built something called Trump Village and it was co-ops, which you own the apartment in a way or whatever, and my Nana used to call it the hotsy-totsy and my Nana used to call it the hotsy topsy. It's very fancy, Michelle, Very fancy. That's Trump.

Speaker 4:

Look what he did. And you know he had that and then he had like another thing that he built and another thing that he built. So we knew who they were. We knew who the Trumps were coming up, you know. And then they started the Atlantic City thing. You know what I mean. He didn't need to become the president, he did not need this. He did not need the indictment. The man doesn't even drink liquor.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 4:

I mean it's bizarro. That's really what it is. But anyway, I think the question is I'll be around then.

Speaker 2:

I hope so. I hope to see more of you, that's for sure. And which leads us into my question, because you know the Republicans and Democrats have changed over the years, that's for sure. The Rhino Republicans and the Alabama bill that almost got passed, explain that to us.

Speaker 4:

Oh, that really got me riled up. It still does. Yeah, you know, in a way you almost expect that Republicans in New York, Delaware, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Maine, they really will essentially go along with the Democratic Party because the Democrats are the lead in those places forever and ever and ever and ever and ever Right. So if they want to get anything done, they have to play ball and sell their souls. So they sell their souls on a daily.

Speaker 4:

But in places like Alabama, where it's supposed to be bright red like a hot sunny day, it is shocking to me, um, that Alabama Republicans would sign on to a bill that would essentially annihilate the bail industry in the state of Alabama, because they wanted to have something else passed, and I don't really recollect what it was. I'm not sure if it was a structure or whatever it was, but it didn't get called At the last minute. It didn't get called. There was a lot of uproar about it.

Speaker 4:

I got a political strategist involved at the last minute from New York City calling into the speaker's hotline and you know I was very, very concerned. We're licensed in Alabama. My insurance company is licensed in Alabama, which, by the way, has the highest bail surety tax rate in the nation. You know agents wouldn't know that, but it's very expensive to have agents in the state of Alabama. You know what I mean. So you know I was just shocked and I'm not I'm not really done with them yet Going to work with Chris McNeil, who's the president of the Alabama Bail Association, and they have a lot of good people on their team and I'm going to insert myself team and I'm going to insert myself.

Speaker 2:

Well, we, we are glad that you are and we're glad that you're standing up and fighting no matter what, and it's so good, it's so good to see you doing things over all these years that we've known you. So there's one quick little story I got to tell everybody. I, michelle, contacted me and it was Patrick, I think. Does Patrick still work for you?

Speaker 4:

IDK Okay.

Speaker 2:

So, anyway, contacted me and said, hey, got a skip down North Carolina, took me five months to find this guy. Finally we busted him in a hotel. We get him out and Michelle's like call me as soon as you have him. So he's sitting in the back seat, he's calling and I'm like Lord. And I was like, oh my God, this guy's going to be so pissed off. She's on the truck phone and I said, michelle, I got him in the back seat right here for you Heading to the, to the airport, what you want to say. And what'd she say? I got you, motherfucker, and I was going. God damn it.

Speaker 2:

But, uh, we're, uh, we're getting close to our time here, Um, so I wanted to go ahead and let you have the floor for the next couple of minutes about explain NABBA, nabba.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, well, nabba, national Association of Bail Agents, which you were intrinsically involved with when we founded. It is just a national bail association that includes property bondsmen, pocket bondsmen, bounty hunters, fugitive agents, bail agents, bail humans. So if you're in the bail industry, we want you. That's basically who we are. We keep our membership at $50. If anybody's facing famine, they can be the same as the guy who's really doing really well. You know what I'm saying. We keep everybody on an even playing field and we advocate for bail agents throughout the United States and for our work in public safety throughout the nation and for our successful criminal justice system. And we are having our first annual event in Pensacola Beach on July 31st. We're having Jim Wahlberg of the famous Wahlberg family come and be our speaker. Jim is part of the ownership team at Evoke Wellness. Evoke has entities all over the United States Florida, massachusetts, ohio, texas, several other places and they have separate units for the rehabilitation of those that are addicted to narcotics and those that are suffering mental illness breaks, which is something we don't really have in the bail industry Separate, ran by a doctor, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, clean, immaculate, beautiful places. Many of them are taking Medicaid, which helps our client base quite a bit.

Speaker 4:

Jim Wahlberg himself was a wayward child, got arrested and arrested and arrested, doing years in jail, became a ward of the state, went to the foster care system, gave his life to Jesus and now he prophesizes all over. He's written books. He's a movie producer. He wrote a book called the Big Hustle. Look it up on Amazon. We're really excited to have him. We're going to give him a bit of a surprise because he's also the executive director of the Mark Wahlberg Youth Foundation, which does a lot of really good work, and Bail through NABBA is going to become involved in that as well.

Speaker 4:

So it's a go-forward mission for NABBA and what it is we want. We deserve not we just want. We deserve to have as many voices like Beyonce on our side as they have on their side. We haven't gotten there yet, but if I have anything to say about it, we are going to get there and this is going to go from Jim Wahlberg to Mark Wahlberg, to Donnie Wahlberg, to Jelly Roll. So we're really excited.

Speaker 4:

Again, $100 includes all your food and drinks. We have a lot of big insurance companies donating to us and we're really excited about that and I had such a really good compliment. Last night I had an agent call me from your state. She just started her own agency and she said you know, the only reason I can come is because of that hundred dollars and you're all going. I really want to know more. I'm pretty new, but I couldn't really afford it. Not staying at the fancy hotel, she's not. But I couldn't really afford it. Not staying at the fancy hotel, she's not. But she's just coming, you understand? And that is the grassroots birth of Nava.

Speaker 2:

Well, we love that you were created, Nava. We love it. We've been widgets since day one and before, and so, Michelle, you know I'm so glad I think Chad is also my buddy here. Chad's been my, you know. He's been God, he's been such a good to me and so have you, and I'm so glad to call you guys my friends, especially you, Michelle. You've been awesome to us.

Speaker 3:

We're looking forward to the 31st and the 2nd.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I cannot wait to come see you finally. It's been a while, Yep, and let me tell you like last time I was up in New York. Last time I was up in New York, Michelle, she surprised me. I was with my ex-wife at the time, but she surprised me with some nice tickets to go see Wicked, which was awesome and she's a doll.

Speaker 4:

We met at Lenny's Clam Bar.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that was so good too.

Speaker 4:

Very, very famous. Look it up All the superstars Frank Sinatra, everybody.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it was awesome. Thank you, Michelle, for coming on, and we love you. Gosh, I'm so glad that you did this with us today. It's awesome.

Speaker 4:

I love you, Gosh. I'm so glad that you did this with us today. It's awesome. I love you guys. I really do and I fully support what you do. We're going to have a great time at the NABA event and off the hook bail bonds. The podcast is going to be live at the NABA event. They're going to have a booth and if you're a bail agent and you want to be interviewed, you better line up because there's going to be a line outside the off the hook booth.

Speaker 2:

Man, we're going to be doing this all day I think, yep, that's cool.

Speaker 4:

Supporting you on every single set.

Speaker 3:

Awesome. Thank you, michelle. Thank you, michelle, all right.

Speaker 2:

We'll be in touch.

Speaker 3:

Bye-bye.

Speaker 2:

Man, that was awesome, that's awesome to have Michelle, yeah. Oh, so all right, let me let me end meeting for all here, all right, guys? Well, that was episode four and that was Michelle she. She knows what she's talking about.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, she's got stories to tell man. And for days.

Speaker 2:

And uh, let's see what's our episode five so we're going to talk about this one.

Speaker 3:

We had to go to Florida and we got two for the price of one.

Speaker 2:

Many trips to Florida.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, Florida's a regular, but we got two pickups and we squeezed a trip into Black Rifle Coffee on the way back which was nice.

Speaker 2:

I think it was Tampa and Jacksonville, Florida.

Speaker 3:

Jacksonville. Yeah, we went into the hood there, oh gosh, but anyway it was fun. We'll tell you about that one on the next podcast.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Until then. We love you. Mean it, Mean it and please keep listening to us. We love you.

Speaker 1:

You've been listening to Off the Hook with Chad and Rob. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and review, and be sure to follow us for notifications for another exciting episode. But in the meantime, you can go to our website at wwwoffthehookbillcom to see more. So until next time, stay out of trouble, or it'll be you that needs to get off the hook. See you soon.